Please Log in or Register
Request New Password
Search the Site:
Advancedintro
HELLO EVERY-ON-LINE-BODY! LET’S START CHATTING ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO SERVE, BE PART OF and GET INTO OUR COMMUNITY…
Can it be too forced?
Is it too scary?
Do we really have to?
What about fitting it into normal life?
Are you excited by getting to know your community?
Do you have ideas how we can?
What are some simple examples of service that you already do?
As we look towards buying a new building, becoming more visible in Acton and serving the wider community let’s make sure we are being honest with each other about how much we do already (in every area of our life, more ‘important issues’ can easily turn into burdens that we then just feel guilty about) and how much we would like to do but feel ill-equiped to accomplish (then we can help each other get better and accomplish some things) so that we might taste some more of what it means to live life to the full!!
I’m excited, but I’m also a bit scared and tired even at the thought! But excited is winning by a small margin at the moment. 
I was praying a bit in the meeting on sunday and just wanted to share a bit of what I’d felt. so as we’re kind of embarking on a new phase where we as church together are pushing understanding God’s heart for justice and what that means for us as individuals & us together, then I think it’s OK to acknowledge that this is a big deal & it’s daunting! I felt like there were some people feeling really excited about us really getting our heads around this theology & then working that out in the day to day & what that will mean for Acton. And maybe some people were feeling daunted and overwhelmed by the size of what this means, & knowing there’s cost. and I think some people were just feeling a bit awkward or guilty that they don’t really feel this concern that other people seem to feel, it’s not their thing. and I guess I just wanted to write this to say I totally know what that feels like. I used to cringe when people would talk about the poor and how God wanted us to love them or when i’d walk past another homeless person on the street and feel so utterly powerless to do anything about this size of the social problems in my community, let alone our country…and the world. and i remember i was just really embarrassed to admit to God that I didn’t really care enough cos i knew i should or ought to or something, but i honestly knew that i just tended to block it out & try not to think about it cos it just made me feel uncomfortable. and clearly i didn’t want to admit this to anyone else because then they’d think i was a terrible person!!! so in the end i just had to pray and said ‘ok God if this is your heart, & i think it is, then break my heart & give me a compassion & help me to understand this, because i don’t’ and as with all prayers which you kind of pray in a moment of over-zealousness (!) God loves to answer them and has broken my heart in a way i can never explain. and he’s started me on this journey where i’m not acting out of a place of guilt and obligation but i’m super excited to be doing the stuff God’s doing and that he would invite us in on that is very cool!
and that’s where i feel like we’re at, as oak tree, that God’s inviting us in on this thing he’s doing in Acton. and if we can understand His heart some more, & if we can journey together & learn this together then we will see his kingdom come in ways we never dared dream or imagine. if you’re not sure then read Isaiah 58 cos he puts it loads better than me!
love you guys, carrie
I’m excited and full of possible ideas (well, have some anyway), but I’m also a bit scared and tired even at the thought! But ‘tired even at the thought’ and also ‘not really believing it will all work in the end’ is winning by a small margin at the moment (11.54am Thursday 11 Jan; it does change pretty often).
Thanks Carrie for your post. It’s very encouraging.
What I find difficult is all the political correctness about not offending other faiths… When abroad I was struck by the fact that there were ‘proper’ Christmas Carrols (as opposed to ‘Here comes Santa’s) played in shops and shopping malls. And in more than one shop there was a worship CD on!
Mark A’s preaching on Isaiah 58 on Sunday!
It’s great to hear your experience Carrie. Have to admit I tend to get overwhelmed at the thought. Maybe it’s partly because ‘the poor’ seems like a nameless, faceless crowd and also a bit of experience in the ‘one step forward, three steps back’ thing of working with people who are in a bad way eg with drugs or whatever…
It’s the most exciting thing ever, but it’s also the most frustrating thing ever….
I’ve been in a women’s prison on an Alpha Holy Spirit day where the girls were in floods of tears as God’s grace and love filled them - but who knows how many setbacks the chaplain has had to walk through with them since…
If I was God - I’d wash my hands of all of us I’m sure…
Thankfully I’m not, and thankfully, he is bent on making me more like him…
Oh and Welcome to the forums Mark B and Carrie!!
Well done for breaking the ‘first post’ barrier!
I’m a bit scared as I love my own privacy, time and (if I’m honest) money and I guess I’ll have to start making them all a little more available . … maybe even to people who I don’t like 
On the other hand as a living sacrifice I’m sure I’ll be able to crawl off the alter once in a while 
On a serious note though I’m interested as to why just the idea of doing things makes people feel tired? Is it because you feel you’ll be stuck with responsibilities? That there won’t be people to support the work and you’ll end up lumbered? Or something else?
Well seeing as I was the first one who said that I suppose I’d better be the one to answer! Although of course I can only speak for myself and not for MamaMonia.
I guess it’s my way of saying some of the same things you said - that I quite like having free time and it often already feels in short supply! (Well at least, those parts of my free time when I’m not just drifting around the house feeling guilty about not practising, but actually doing something relaxing do! 
) And that I know there’ll be a cost to what we plan to do, and at times it will feel pretty high I’m sure. I know myself well enough to know that if I’m not careful my natural tendency would be to throw myself into absolutely every available opportunity/project/whatever with great enthusiasm and in a misguided belief that I’m serving to the best of my ability, and then a few months later be left feeling burned out and resentful! 
HOWEVER I have been really encouraged ever since Mark (the one who’s the vicar that is!)arrived and started talking about this stuff that he always said we should do a few things (or even one thing) really well to begin with and not worry about the stuff we couldn’t do at first, and that as we grow we can then do more stuff, without everyone having to be involved in everything and therefore burning out. Also I think we all know that having some time for oneself and one’s friends (and to spend one on one time with God as well of course!) is a prerequisite for being able to be effective in the Kingdom - Jesus certainly wasn’t ashamed of needing time out by himself or with his close friends sometimes. 
And so I’m hopeful that for me and for the rest of us we’ll be able to get the balance right and to find the place or places where we each fit just right in the big picture - and when you do that it energises rather than drains you yes? And that explains why excitement is winning!
What a long complicated answer to a simple question eh? On the plus side, a good opportunity to use lots of smileys and I always love to use smileys whenever possible! 
I think the responses so far have said it all really. Due to bigsmalling I haven’t heard the sermon and won’t hear the next two either. However, to answer “the Queen”, the reason many of us feel tired is that we are tired!
Also, just a couple of observations. I hope that Mark A and Mark B are doing their research and looking at what has worked elsewhere in terms of community projects. At one church I was at years ago we had a “drop in centre” every Saturday morning which was widely publicised. As far as I can remember we had 3 people drop in, in 6 months! During the New Hope project (which I think was overall a success within the limitations of us not being close enough to the estate) 2 people tried very hard to get a baby and toddler group going and gave much time to it. I don’t think anyone ever came along to that either! There’s not much point in doing activities and projects that the people on the street don’t want or need. Also, a few years ago I read in a book on church growth that for whatever reason, predominantly middle class churches aren’t very good at reaching the people in poor neighbourhoods. What they are good at, is reaching other middle class people (eg HTB and Alpha). The book also said that churches should look at what is already working and clearly has God’s blessing and get involved in that. Finally, I would say that we also need to look at how well we are supporting or have supported the poor who are already in our church or have come to our church in the past. I’ll leave that as open question…
I can think of at least one person (family even) regularly coming to Oaktree who I would consider poor, or even below the breadline. Coming from a working class background myself, I am aware of the barriers to cross class working. It can work, but we (and I’m talking about me now, as even though I would still identify myself as working class, I have picked up a lot of middle class attributes, some good, some bad.
We have done some very successful things (in numbers wise - not necessarily measureable in other ways) in the past, one that springs to mind is the barge project, another is the Friday club and I’m sure there are more.
It is difficult to evaluate project success, as only God knows for example, how many Christians started volunteering after seeing the literature produced by the new hope project, who didn’t phone up the project and say they had volunteered for a project. (though if no one comes, that is a good sign of failure and time to evaluate!)
I do think that there are some groups that are especially disadvantaged now, or have a lot of time and no where to go. I have had several discussions with Daniel (who mark b won’t know as it was just before his time) regarding teenagers and their lack of anywhere to go etc, whereas there are quite a lot of mother and baby groups around as well as surestart for the south acton estate people etc.
I think WoofWoof has made some important points. When Mark (the original) first met with us when he arrived and asked for thoughts mine was could we support and enhance things that already go on locally instead of feeling we have to set up our own projects.
This would mean we’d be working with partner organisations and meeting and serving them too. It would also remove some of the burden of responsibility from Oaktree folks who would be free to contribute the skills they have.
I thought the volunteer booklet from New Hope was great and have been involved in a couple of local things as a result of the contact information. As someone who was a dead keenie to be involved in social action I have actually found it pretty hard to get started!
Also an idea - I’ve read about outdoor gyms and wondered if there are any local ones - basically you spend a day outdoors doing some sort of clearing, tree planting thing and you actually get the same work out as if you’d gone to the gym - I think it would also be great fun too!
What’s the difference between an outdoor Gym and the Housework-acise class that was on offer on the Forum a while back?
Just use the forum search for “Housework-acise”
Queen Vic, I’m sure I can get leggy Mambo to run the class. the venue would still be at the same place though.
Macbeth - If the phrase those that DON’T, teach were true then Leggy would certainly qualify as a black belt teacher. His classes are currently running at my house most days
Mark’s sermon yesterday reminded me of things I learnt when I did the School of Urban Mission course.
They had core values which I think are useful and seem to fit with our approach (or what I understand it to be!!) so have inserted here:
1) Servant leadership
2) Partnership with others
3) Simplicity
4) Empowerment
5) Hoslitic
Also I’ve got copies of all the course lecture notes which I’m happy to lend out. They are split in to 3 terms as follows. Also the lectures are available on tape at the HTB bookshop.
1 - Seeng and understanding
eg notes on undestanding our city, Competing world views, Powerlessness, What kind of Society, Mission and Theology, Biblical perspectives on mission, Evangalism and social resonsibility, Good news to the poor
2 - Big Issues - our response
Poverty and prejudice, race issues, The Father factor, Youth culture, Debt, Mental health, Addictions, Sexual brokeness, HIV and Homelessness
3 - Community Transforming Churches
eg what is church, beyond the good samaritan, belonging believing and behaving, urban expression.
…hey just wondered if anyone would find some of these social action/ God’s heart for justice talks from soul survivor last summer useful?
go to:
http://shop.soulsurvivor.com/index.php?cPath=190_215_231_232_236
(i don’t know if hyperlinks work, just copy & paste into the address line otherwise) there’s a ridiculously good one by graham cray called justice & justification. really helpful & pretty hard-core. i’m sure the others are good too, elaine storkey & tre sheppard but i only went to graham crays, ooops! there’s loads of tabs on the left hand side of the page, select the soul action headed ones cos that was the justice stream…
laters amigos
- millers
- Bishop
- jamesperryman
- hvalenie
- arthur_de
Joined: 2006-10-03